Interview with Hambo Lama Ayusheev. If the Buryats live well, it means there will be peace here, from the Irkutsk to Amur regions

Khambo Lama Damba Ayusheev: “My dear relatives, learn to respect yourself and learn to be proud of yourself.” This is the appeal to the head of the Buddhist Traditional Sangha of Russia, the largest association of Buddhist communities in our country.

Damba Ayusheev has held this position since 1995. He is one of those about whom legends are made and songs are sung. People love Ayusheev, but Buddhist intellectuals, not so much. He is too much of a peasant on the throne, not an esthete, not enough spirituality. The Russian Reporter correspondent listened to Hambo Lama for five hours and was not at all tired. The features of logic and speech of the country's main Buddhist are left unchanged.

Prologue

“I can’t pretend to be smart.” Buddhism is a living religion, we should speak normally. When I stop joking, I become boring to myself. Making yourself smarter than you are - we have many more such people, you know. It’s better if they think I’m a fool.

About bodhichite and enlightenment

“If you haven’t done anything bad in your life, if your life was right, this is not a guarantee that you will go to heaven.” This is not enough. My Buddhism is different. I say: help people. All the Buddha's teachings are about this. When everything is right, it means wrong. When everything is good, it is bad. Well, what did you want? Or maybe I should say something else? Practice bothichita, cultivate some qualities in yourself for enlightenment. You don’t need much intelligence here at all.

The most important thing: I do not rely on Buddha. Do you know why? I don't have a god. Buddha will definitely not come. Do you know why I'm a Buddhist? Do you know why I will follow Buddha all my life and not be disappointed in it? Do you know? Because I will never catch up with him. But I will follow the best, the strongest man of civilization. I am the one who follows Buddha. I don’t have time to prove that I’m good, that I’m gentle or sensitive - I have to go, I have to help people.

About the dignity of the people

Hambo Lama was asked: how many Buddhist believers are there now?

- Oh, I don't know. This is an interesting question. We are such a mysterious people, we don’t know how many people are drilling on earth. And if I suddenly find out, I’ll die right away. But my people have the responsibility. If my people live well, it means that here, from the Irkutsk to the Amur regions, there is calm and peace. This is what I am responsible for.

We are used to thinking of ourselves as who? Third-rate. What do we say here? The Tibetan lama is a jewel, the Mongolian lama is a smart girl, and the Buryat lama is a misunderstanding. 80% of our intellectuals say so. My dear relatives, learn to respect yourself and learn to be proud of yourself. When you are near Hambo Lama Itigelov, be worthy of him. In general, I want to say that every nation considers itself worthy, every nation respects its values and has support within itself.

About Orthodoxy and parallels

- If I had the right to appoint heads of districts, half of these heads would not have passed - I would have checked them for lice. If he has a cool car, I would immediately chase him with a filthy broom. But they would have quickly realized and arrived on the Zaporozhets. Some officials come to me and say: “I’m Orthodox, I want to find a parallel.” I say: “Get out of here with your parallels. You don’t understand anything about Orthodoxy, you fool. You also want to understand Buddhism! Get out of here."

You respect your religion and respect mine. Don't talk down to me, don't. I am a Buddhist, I am not afraid of death. And if I'm not afraid of death, I'm not afraid of anything.

About the great Russian people

— Russians themselves are an experimental people. Everything bad that happens in the world will definitely pass through Russia. Whatever idea appears in the world, it will definitely come to Russia and will definitely end in either a revolution or some kind of crisis. This is a great people.

What's the worst thing about us? The space is huge. Any good idea that arose in Primorye will die by the time it reaches Moscow. Any idea that arises in Moscow, until it reaches Vladivostok... We do not hear each other. Let’s do this: we’ll send the Russians to Germany, and we’ll bring the Germans here. Let them try to live in such territories: they will survive - they will not survive. Well, just experimental.

For some reason, many Russians inside are now a little weaker. Why do we have nationalism? He comes when the people weaken and begin to be afraid. And when a person is healthy, this does not exist at all. I believe that this is nationalism. If a nation is healthy, it has no time for this.

About Putin and White Tara

The teacher asked: what do you think about Putin?

“When they ask me why I don’t go against our head, I say: “I can’t go, because he is White Tara for me, I can’t go against my goddess.” A man who has power over one sixth of the landmass of the earth, who can start a war with one button - this man has enormous power. It's ten times worse for him than for me.

I should help him, and not say: let’s change him, if I don’t like him, we’ll appoint someone else. This is the easiest thing. And when people tell me:

“Who do you love more, the Dalai Lama or the President?” - I say: “Listen, dear comrades, who feeds me, who gives my old people money - a foreign big lama or the president of the country?”

And don’t say: “Why are you so boring, you have no imagination!” There are 500 thousand Buryats behind me, and you want me to risk them? It doesn’t take much intelligence to say that I’m a great man and throw people to the slaughter. I'm not saying that I'm afraid of anyone. I can't be scared. I can answer in such a way that it will not seem a little.

If some new president of the Republic of Buryatia comes here, fine, go and take command. Just remember one thing: I won’t ask you for anything. You will soon ask me for peace and - what? And peace.

Prologue

About bodhichite and enlightenment

About the dignity of the people

Hambo Lama was asked: how many Buddhist believers are there now?

- Oh, I don't know. This is an interesting question. We are such a mysterious people, we don’t know how many people are drilling on earth. And if I suddenly find out, I’ll die right away. But my people have the responsibility. If my people live well, it means that here, from the Irkutsk to the Amur regions, there is calm and peace. This is what I am responsible for.

About Orthodoxy and parallels

- If I had the right to appoint heads of districts, half of these heads would not have passed - I would have checked them for lice. If he has a cool car, I would immediately chase him with a filthy broom. But they would have quickly realized and arrived on the Zaporozhets. Some officials come to me and say: “I’m Orthodox, I want to find a parallel.” I say: “Get out of here with your parallels. You don’t understand anything about Orthodoxy, you fool. You also want to understand Buddhism! Get out of here."

You respect your religion and respect mine. Don't talk down to me, don't. I am a Buddhist, I am not afraid of death. And if I'm not afraid of death, I'm not afraid of anything.

About the great Russian people

— Russians themselves are an experimental people. Everything bad that happens in the world will definitely pass through Russia. Whatever idea appears in the world, it will definitely come to Russia and will definitely end in either a revolution or some kind of crisis. This is a great people.

About Putin and White Tara

The teacher asked: what do you think about Putin?

I should help him, and not say: let’s change him, if I don’t like him, we’ll appoint someone else. This is the easiest thing. And when people say to me: “Who do you love more, the Dalai Lama or the President?” - I say: “Listen, dear comrades, who feeds me, who gives my old people money - a foreign big lama or the president of the country?”

They say to me: “But our president is Russian, not a Buddhist.” What difference does it make to me? I respect this person and I respect this position. De facto and de jure, today I serve President Putin. Medvedev will become president again, and I will serve him. If Zyuganov becomes president, I will be forced to serve him. And don’t say: “Why are you so boring, you have no imagination!” There are 500 thousand Buryats behind me, and you want me to risk them? It doesn’t take much intelligence to say that I’m a great man and throw people to the slaughter. I'm not saying that I'm afraid of anyone. I can't be scared. I can answer in such a way that it will not seem a little.

If some new president of the Republic of Buryatia comes here, fine, go and take command. Just remember one thing: I won’t ask you for anything. You will soon ask me for peace and - what? And peace.

All his teaching, as Hambo Lama said, spreads in space and reaches various corners of the world, and the incorruptible body of the great teacher has rested in the palace of the Ivolginsky datsan for 15 years.

Last weekend, the VI international conference dedicated to this phenomenon took place in a place sacred to all Buddhists. The format of the conference was very different from what could be seen before and, as Khambo Lama Ayusheev said, “... this year we did not set a goal to gather scientists and academicians. We want the common people to be ready to understand and accept Itigelov’s teachings.” The MK correspondent looked into what messages come from there and why it is needed.

From a different angle

The XII Khambo Lama Itigelov first spoke about the phenomenon in 2002. Now every Buddhist knows about this amazing and mystical story. In 1927, at the age of 75, having gathered his close disciples, Lama Itigelov assumed the lotus position and told his disciples that he was leaving for 1000 years. According to the will he drew up, 75 years later he was raised from the ground, and the Precious and Inexhaustible body of Hambo Lama appeared to the world - the scientific world shuddered. Outwardly, the monk was not only recognizable, but also showed all the signs of a living body: soft skin without any signs of decay, his nose, ears, eyes, fingers, and so on were preserved. They were never able to unravel the secret; the phenomenon remained unknown. In 2005, at the insistence of the head of Russian Buddhists, Khambo Lama Ayusheev, access to the incorruptible body was closed to scientists. Since then, research into the phenomenon has been carried out only within the framework of conferences organized by the Buddhist Traditional Sangha of Russia.

If we omit all the known facts and scientific conclusions, the most important thing remains - Itigelov’s messages, which come from him to our world every day. This is what the traditional Sangha is now focusing on. Khambo Lama Ayusheev actively maintains a page on Faceebook, where he uploads the teacher’s messages translated into Russian and leaves his own comments. In addition, an active distribution policy is being pursued on other network resources. And most importantly, Itigelov’s teachings go towards China, to inner Mongolia, where datsan ministers and parishioners comprehend secret knowledge.

We receive teachings not in order to become wiser, and not for enlightenment,” said Ayusheev. - And in order to live longer. Unfortunately, a person’s life is very short, but Itigelov, having lived for 165 years, proved us otherwise. In his teachings he says: I live a long time and therefore I give you my knowledge about life so that you repeat my path. This is the main meaning of the messages. And the fact that our acting Chapters Alexey Sambuevich will achieve enlightenment and become smarter than he is now, this is already the second. The main thing is that Alexey Tsydenov, together with Tsydenzhap Batuev (deputy of the National Assembly of the Republic of Belarus - Author) live long and well. If these two comrades understand, then it’s not in vain that we gathered here.

Message to the world

In Buryatia there are more than 1000 lamas who practice Buddhism, but only one receives Itigelov’s teachings - Bimba Dorzhiev, the main custodian of Hambo Lama Itigelov. For a monk this is a huge responsibility. Every day he wakes up early in the morning and comes to the palace to the incorruptible body. Every day he reads the sutra about the defenders of Itigelov, raises the mantra and performs other rituals. Then, for 20 minutes, closing his eyes, he meditates, waiting for the teaching. This is a real phenomenon that no science can explain. It can only be understood by studying the knowledge left behind. The monks of the Ivolginsky datsan began receiving teachings in 2012, during which time a huge number of them have accumulated and they all require clarification and commentary. As Khambo Lama Ayusheev himself says, each new message is a revelation: “I will tell you honestly. When I receive a message from Bimba Dorzhiev, I don’t understand anything for the first 15 minutes,” admits Ayusheev. “Then I start to think, figure things out, and understand the meaning.”

Nadezhda Berkengeym (center) gives answers to questions from the laity.

Lamas of the Ivolginsky datsan and conference participants.

The conference was conducted in sections: in Buryat, Russian, and Mongolian languages. Everyone had the opportunity to get acquainted with the messages, read them in a language they understood and discuss those points that might seem incomprehensible or were simply the most relevant or interesting. Thus, messages related to virtue aroused the greatest interest; their discussions lasted until the evening of the first day of the conference. Nevertheless, the main question remained how Itigelov’s messages could help people in our time.

One of the moderators of the Russian-speaking group was the vice-president of the “Tibetan House” in Moscow, Nadezhda Berkengeym. According to her, Bimba Lama is not the only person who receives messages from Hambo Lama: “Traditional Buddhism and many other religious movements also have their own oracles, or, better said, guides who transmit the acquired knowledge to the world. Now it’s difficult to understand how this happens; sometimes even people themselves are unable to explain these phenomena.” Nadezhda also noted that this kind of conference should be held as often as possible, and it would be even better to organize courses on studying these messages in small groups.

Lyubov Viktorovna Preshchep came to the conference from Krasnodar, she also hears Itigelov’s messages, but does not consider herself a real Buddhist: “I am a different story,” says Lyubov Viktorovna. - I never aspired to something like this, and even when the first contact occurred, there was no special desire. Everything came with time. I have been receiving messages since 2002, but I still cannot say that I am in Buddhism. The knowledge that I have gives me the opportunity to understand this or that message. Ultimately, everything depends not on the vessel in which the knowledge we receive is contained, but on what is inside it and how we understand this or that saying.

Unfortunately, the woman could not talk about exactly how the messages arrive and what Itigelov tells her, saying that this is a very broad topic and requires a lot of time. This is understandable, the question is really difficult, and few people would want to reveal their secrets.

According to Lyubov Viktorovna, Itigelov’s messages allow people to think about their lives, look at it from the other side, answer questions of interest to themselves, and even find solutions to difficult situations.

In our time, in order to come to peace and harmony not only with ourselves, but also with other people, it is necessary to force humanity to think. And it is precisely the phenomenon of Hambo Lama that invites us to think about it,” she says.

It's never too late

Gleb from Novokuznetsk. He has been visiting the Ivolginsky datsan since 2012 and came to the conference for the first time.

On the social network Facebook, I saw information that not only scientists, lamas, people of power, but also ordinary lay people - like me - can come to the sixth conference dedicated to the phenomenon of the twelfth Pandito Khambo Lama Itigelov.

Gleb does not hide the fact that he was also interested in biological miracles.

The man spent 75 years underground, but we cannot say that he died. The dead are cold, and it has body temperature, people feel the heat emanating from the body. It’s hard to believe, I wanted to see it.

At 57 years old, Gleb Dorofeev is sure that he strives for the best and it is never too late to improve himself, and in life nothing is completely lost. And teaching is like the light of a beacon that shines in any bad weather. “Have you noticed that no one here talks about Itigelov in the past tense? - the participant shares his observation. - Everyone believes that he is here with us. The scientific world got what it wanted, tests, tests, all kinds of measurements, but we, as lay people, get completely different information from meeting with teachers. I would like to say in the words of our common teacher: Buddhism is not a faith, not a philosophy - it is the freedom of the soul.”

Phenomenon

On Sunday, when the results of the conference were summed up and the resolution was signed, Khambo Lama Ayusheev, in his final speech, quoted the words of his teacher, the venerable Itigelov: “When you turn the wheel of teachings, prices in stores will decrease.”

This is what I mean,” continued Hambo Lama. - Officials don’t understand that when a real Buddhist spins the drum, prices drop for him. This happens because people understand that there is not only material, but also spiritual food. That it is much nicer and better, and helps us in later life.

Tatyana Troyanskaya is in the studio, and I will now greet our guests. Opposite me is Nina Kochelyaeva, director of the New Institute of Cultural Studies, executive director of the project, i.e. the film we are going to talk about today. Hello!

Kochelyaeva N.

Hello!

Troyanskaya T.

Anastasia Razlogova, general director of the Kamer-Ton-Film-Rus company and general producer of the film we will talk about, as well as the general partner of the project.

Razlogova A.

Good afternoon

Troyanskaya T.

And Alla Namsaraeva, head of the press service of the Ivolginsky datsan and chief consultant of the project and film that we will talk about. Allah, good afternoon!

Namsaraeva A.

Good afternoon

Troyanskaya T.

And now about the film itself. This is a new picture, a film-study of traditional Russian Buddhism as a factor in the harmonious interaction of different ethnic groups and cultures based on materials from the life of Khambo Lama Etigelov. And you are filming a film dedicated to Hambo Lama Etigelov, you are doing this. Well, first I must say that Khambo Lama Etigelov is known as the incorruptible lama, and Alla has just begun to correct me that I am expressing myself incorrectly: “incorruptible lama” - they don’t say that.

Namsaraeva A.

Yes, Tatyana, this has already become a stable expression, but it is wrong. Because it is incorruptible, of course - there was no process of decay. In Buryat they call it “Erdeni Munhe Bee”, and if we translate it into Russian, it sounds like “Precious inexhaustible body”. This is how it was in 2002, when he was taken out of the sarcophagus in which he had been underground for 75 years, and all his joints worked and still work the same way, and his skin turgor is soft. This is what I am now saying in these terms - it was written down, according to our rules, according to Russian laws, in the act of exhumation. But the pathologists who conducted this study, they, of course, were as amazed as all the other people. Because he spent 75 years, as I already said, in this sarcophagus. He lived seventy-five years before and was the head of Russian Buddhists at the beginning of the 20th century. Those. at that time he was 150 years old, last year he turned 165 years old.

Troyanskaya T.

Those. for 15 years now, it turns out he’s been with us?

Namsaraeva A.

He is with us, yes. There are some euphemisms that say, somehow define, “he is with us,” “he has returned,” “he has come.” Because neither science nor Buddhism as such can say how to correctly designate the state in which he is, because it is unknown to both. And when, for example, the Dalai Lama was asked, please comment, and Lama Etigelov came. The Dalai Lama said that I cannot comment on this state because I have never been in this state, and you can comment on it only when you have already experienced it.

Troyanskaya T.

Those. It turns out that no one can comment on this condition, because no one living today has experienced this condition?

Namsaraeva A.

Yes. And in fact, a lot, not a lot, but how many films have been made about him?

Razlogova A.

There are several films about him, these are documentaries. Starting from the moment when he was just taken out, it was all filmed on video, and it all went into the film “The Message of Khambo Lama,” the very first film about Etigelov. And, in fact, then this chronicle was used everywhere, it is on the Internet, and those films that already exist about him are of a narrative nature. They talk about his life, about his contribution to Russian statehood and Russian Buddhism.

Troyanskaya T.

I think, Nina, you will tell us how your film actually differs from the films that already exist.

Kochelyaeva N.

Well, first of all, I want to say that the film has a working title, and the working title is very different from the project title that we know. Because the project itself includes two components, the first part is research, on the basis of which an analytical report is being prepared on the role of Russian traditional Buddhism as a factor of harmonious interaction with various religions, ethnic groups and culture of Russia. We all know that Russia is a multinational, multi-ethnic, multi-confessional country, and in this sense, it is important for us to identify those characteristics of Buddhism that are very productive. Because when Buddhism comes to a particular area, it does not rebuild it, but it somehow adapts to this area, including everything that came before it. Those. This is a very interesting feature of Buddhism, which does not break cultures, but which tries to adapt...

Troyanskaya T.

Dissolves.

Kochelyaeva N.

Or he penetrates these cultures himself. This is such a very important feature that Buddhism is distinguished by, and for us it is such a very important beacon. As for the film, it has a working title, perhaps it will be adjusted during the filming process, for now we call it tentatively “The Etigelov Phenomenon. The mystery of the Buryat lama." And, of course, we would not like to go down the already beaten path when creating this film, we would like to look for other structures. A lot of films are shot in the narrative genre, in this very linear genre, when it tells where Hambo Lama Etigelov comes from, as a rule, all these films begin with the rise of his body, with this sensation. But when we were in Ulan-Ude, on the first expedition, and were talking, we had a large round table in the National Library of Buryatia, and one of the participants in this round table asked, in my opinion, one of the key questions: what if the figure of the Hambo Lama Etigelov, what will remain, what will this project be structured around? And the project will be structured, it seems to me, in people’s perception, the lamas’ perception of this phenomenon, the perception of the residents of Buryatia, and perhaps, in part, by the residents of Russia, because Buddhism is quite widespread. Now in St. Petersburg we are filming in several key places connected with Etigelov’s life - this is the State Museum of the History of Religion and the Russian Ethnographic Museum, which gladly became partners of the project, already at this stage.

Troyanskaya T.

And datsan, of course.

Kochelyaeva N.

And right now the filming is taking place in the St. Petersburg datsan, so the director of the film, Elena Demidova, is not with us on the air right now. And what is very important for us is the not so pragmatic side of the issue related to forensic examination or some such things that, it seems to me, somewhat reduce the intensity, they can be interesting as some kind of enticing thing. It is very important for us to try to decipher certain spiritual structures, and it is no coincidence that our partner is the Buddhist Traditional Sankha of Russia; we are very grateful to them for the fact that they undertook to help us with this project. And the Buddhist University in Ivolginsky Datsan provides such constant supervision of this project. It is very important for us to structure the film according to a different principle, and on the advice of Khambo Lama Ayusheev, the current Pandito Khambo Lama, we base it on Etigelov’s messages. These are special texts that are given every day, maybe Alla will tell you about this in more detail.

Troyanskaya T.

What are messages and how do they appear, these messages.

Namsaraeva A.

Messages or teachings - that's what they are called. And the acting Khambo Lama, which Nina has already spoken about, the XXIV Pandito Khambo Lama Damba Ayusheev, he just drew our attention to them when we talked to him, before starting work on this project, on this film. He says that now all Buddhists live according to the teachings that Buddha gave, but that was 2600 years ago, or that Nagarjuna gave, it was the 5th century - this is a great scientist who lived 600 years, by the way. And Tsonghawa is the one who is the founder of the Gelug line, Yellow-Capped Buddhism, and this was the 14th-15th centuries, - i.e. this all happened a very long time ago, and we are familiar with these teachings, already translated and rewritten. We now have the opportunity to receive certain teachings, certain messages from Hambo Lama Etigelov. The fact is that Hambo Lama Etigelov was not just raised at one moment with his sarcophagus together. In 1999, this happened for the first time, when one of the lamas of the Ivolginsky datsan, Bimba Lama Dorzhiev, began to appear in meditation to a certain lama, who began to say that he needed to be taken out, literally from the cemetery. And he went to the abbot of his datsan, and they went together to Hambo Lama, and Hambo Lama scolded them. Because for Buddhists, going to a cemetery, much less carrying out an exhumation, is completely unrealistic. Buddhists try not to go to cemeteries, women never go there at all, even to bury - it is believed that a woman is the keeper of the hearth of the home, and she should not appear in such places. Men go to bury and that’s it, because for Buddhists who believe in reincarnation, it is believed that the body is a shell, consciousness has come out of the shell...

Troyanskaya T.

And the body no longer matters.

Namsaraeva A.

Yes, yes. And then consciousness moves, reincarnates into some new body and continues to develop there. And then he (Hambo Lama Damba Ayusheev) told them, look for some facts that will lead you to the fact that there really is someone there, someone is waiting for us there. And for three years in a row, Bimba Lama, together with the Sheerete Lama at that time, the abbot of the Ivolginsky datsan, Dagba Lama, went in this way to the head of Russian Buddhists. They found some indirect evidence, but then the mother of one of the big lamas died, she happened to come from this area, they went to this cemetery. Khambo Lama said, well, well, since I’m here, it was in 2002, in September, he said, well, let me go there already. And he came to this place. Well, Buddhists always say, you need to see the signs, i.e. he saw some signs that were there, and he approached this place, and his grandfather, who was once a boy and went to this place with his dad and saw how Etigelov was raised and lowered again, he said, yes, yes, you got it all right. And then they found relatives, but indirect relatives, because Hambo Lama Etigelov was a monk, but he had brothers and sisters, they had children and grandchildren, and these great-nephews were found, who gave permission for exhumation.

Troyanskaya T.

Those. Did you just find it, or was there some kind of sign there?

Namsaraeva A.

There were signs. The fact is that in Buryatia there is such a terrain in that area, such small hills, and if laypeople are buried, they are buried lower, but lamas were either burned or buried higher. And there in this place lay a stone that made the watershed so that the spring waters would bypass this place, so that this sarcophagus, the cedar sarcophagus, would not become saturated with water. And three plants grew there, medicinal plants that are not found in nature in one place. The current Hambo Lama is a healer by his Lama specialization, and he knows perfectly well where everything grows in Buryatia, and he knows that these three plants are never found even nearby, let alone growing from the same place. And then he said, yes, I believe, and they started pestering him. But in fact, as it turned out, Hambo Lama Etigelov was harassed by lamas in this way both in 1955 and in 1973. In 1955, well, as the Buddhists say again, you need to see the signs, there were big winds, hurricanes, and the roofs of houses were blown away, and then they said that he was calling on the element of the wind, and they went to him, got him, performed a ritual, and again they put him there.

Troyanskaya T.

Well, that is. didn't open the sarcophagus?

Namsaraeva A.

They opened it.

Troyanskaya T.

Did you reveal it? And nothing surprised them?

Namsaraeva A.

No, they were not surprised, because he left a will when he left himself in this state, and they knew that those lamas were alive who knew that he left himself in this state. And in 1973, two years in a row, in 1972 and 1973 there were large floods, i.e. he called with the element of water. And by the beginning of the 21st century, these old lamas were no longer left. By the way, in the KGB archives there is, in my opinion, a document from 1955, which says that the lamas went to their idol, took it out, dug it up, performed a ritual and buried it back.

Troyanskaya T.

There is a fact.

Namsaraeva A.

And by the beginning of the 21st century nothing was said about this. I asked Hambo Lama a question: why? I believed that such facts, out-of-the-ordinary facts, should have been reported from one Hambo Lama to another.

Troyanskaya T.

Transmit.

Namsaraeva A.

Yes, how the nuclear briefcase is passed from president to president. But at some point they stopped reporting this.

Troyanskaya T.

It is not clear why this was?

Namsaraeva A.

Hambo Lama said that, most likely, they thought that if necessary, they would find out themselves, and if it was not necessary, then they did not need to know. Well, that’s how they got it and transported it to the Ivolginsky datsan, and there was a lot of talk that it would deteriorate there, in the air, you opened this sarcophagus, you got it out. And time passes, a special palace was built for him, in which he is constantly located, and he remains there. And this year he will be 16 years old, and he stays there all the time; eight times a year he is transferred to the main temple of the Ivolginsky datsan for large prayer services. And he, along with the lamas, participates in these prayer services, people come to him to worship.

Troyanskaya T.

Everyone knows that President Vladimir Putin goes there, right?

Namsaraeva A.

In 2011, the president was in the Ivolginsky datsan. It was such an interesting moment, he met Etigelov twice that time. The first time he met him was when he was first brought in; a special throne was erected for him to communicate with Hambo Lama Etigelov. And then, when he had such a planned meeting with the abbots, with the current Hambo Lama, after that he stood up and said: “We must say goodbye to the Hambo Lama.” And everyone thought that he wanted to say goodbye to Hambo Lama Ayusheev, and they began to leave. And the president took it, went out and went to the palace - he meant that he needed to say goodbye to Hambo Lama Etigelov.

Troyanskaya T.

Well, the question for the messages is, how did they appear?

Namsaraeva A.

Somewhere from 2008, since Bimba Lama, to whom all this appeared in meditation, he became the main custodian of Hambo Lama Etigelov. He gets up every morning, and, as usual, the lamas place their offerings in front of the Buddha before the altar every morning - he also places these offerings in front of Etigelov and conducts a prayer service. And Hambo Lama told him, well, if you have some kind of connection with him, well, ask him some question. And they tried to establish some kind of mental connection. In 2008, some such messages began to come from him, but they began to come on an ongoing basis in 2012. I spoke with both Bimba Lama and Khambo Lama about how this all happens. Bimba Lama enters this meditative state and a certain thought form appears before him, he must only have time to remember what was in this picture, what action was there, what was said, and write it down. Since Etigelov is a Buryat by nationality, his native language is Buryat, he speaks all this in the Buryat language, and Bimba Lama writes it down in Buryat. Then he brings this to the current head of the Buddhists of Russia, Hambo Lama takes it all, comprehends it, opens his Facebook...

Troyanskaya T.

It's funny, yes, new technologies and Hambo Lama. Kirill, the patriarch, doesn’t have Facebook.

Namsaraeva A.

Well, here are the advanced Buddhists. And Hambo Lama opens his Facebook and first types this message in the Buryat language in the Buryat language and gives his comment on it. And then, after two, three or four hours, he translates it into Russian and also gives his commentary. And this is not always a literal translation. Sometimes, given the different structure of the language, a different mentality, he makes some accents in order to better explain what it was.

Troyanskaya T.

And these messages, as I understand it, are also present in the film, right?

Kochelyaeva N.

Yes, through Alla we all the time receive messages from the current Hambo Lama, messages not of this kind, he expresses himself more literally, but so to speak, wishes on how to structure the film. It seems to me that a very interesting move was found - to structure the film around the messages of Hambo Lama Etigelov. Because we shoot a lot, in different places, we shoot historical things related to Hambo Lama Etigelov, because, being a museum expert by training, it seems to me very important to find objects, to find facts that once existed. But we wanted to structure the entire film around the messages of Hambo Lama Etigelov, opening each chapter of the film with them.

Troyanskaya T.

Well, you know, I read the messages, to be honest, they are very difficult to understand. You will explain them or they will appear in the film and only then what happens next will explain what is in the message.

Razlogova A.

This is what the director must decide, how he will reveal these messages.

Kochelyaeva N.

Absolutely fair point. Here it seems to me that neither producers nor project executive directors should interfere in this creative process.

Troyanskaya T.

Which continues, I'm talking about the creative process, and which we will return to soon. We continue our conversation about the new film, about Khambo Lama Etigelov, and the filming period is underway now, and the film will be... When, by the way, will it be ready?

Kochelyaeva N.

We plan to finish the painting by mid-July. Filming will have already been completed, editing of the film will be completed and post-production will be completed. This is our plan, quite tough, because I must say that we are working with the support of the Presidential Grants Fund, and, naturally...

Troyanskaya T.

It is no coincidence that Vladimir Vladimirovich went to see the Hambo Lama.

Kochelyaeva N.

Yes. And naturally, when you carry out some project for which money is given, you are obliged to follow a clear plan, and before you submit an application, you are obliged to develop this plan, starting from a plan related to travel, consultations, filming, film preparation and ending with film promotion. Because it is very important that both the film and the report that we are preparing, because from our previous stories it may seem that only the film is such an integral part of the project...

Well, because we, potential viewers, will see the film.

Kochelyaeva N.

Undoubtedly. The report will be read, I hope, by students of humanities universities; it is being prepared for mass distribution, and I hope it will be used. Because it is very important to show not only the Etigelov phenomenon, but to show the role and significance of Buddhism in general. And there will be considered the social practices of Buddhism, and the history of Buddhism, and many other things that, in general, will be left out of the film. Therefore, these are two complementary structures. And the film, of course, will be more lively, more vibrant and, naturally, designed for a larger number of readers and viewers, since the report will be designed for such a rather special audience associated with the teaching of humanities and the teaching of humanities - cultural studies, history of religion etc.

Troyanskaya T.

In this case, I have a question for the general producer of the film, Anastasia Razlogova, who must say where the film will be shown at the festival and when mere mortals, i.e. will we see this picture?

Razlogova A.

Well, as Nina Aleksandrovna already said, we have a clear plan, which we submitted to the fund even before we knew whether we would receive a grant or not. And according to this plan, the film should be shown at the Window to Europe film festival in Vyborg, where the premiere should take place. And then the film will be shown at several more Russian festivals. It will definitely be shown on television, we really hope that the Culture channel will show it.

Troyanskaya T.

Those. most likely this is Culture?

Razlogova A.

Yes. And it will definitely be shown in cinemas, this is also an obligatory part of our plan.

Troyanskaya T.

Will there be a rental?

Razlogova A.

There will be a so-called limited release, which we will try to make as wide a limited release as possible. These will definitely be film clubs, and VGIK and the Guild of Non-Fiction Film and Television, our partners, will help us with this. But these will also be central large cities - St. Petersburg, Moscow definitely, and other cities. Buryatia is one hundred percent where we will do special screenings, and we will try to do them together with the director, and we will try to present and distribute the report simultaneously with the screenings. This is one of our main tasks - the distribution of this film.

Troyanskaya T.

In general, if we talk about shows, it is possible to show it independently or still immerse yourself in the context, i.e. Is there some kind of introduction at the beginning or is the film an independent unit? It is clear that the film is still being filmed, it is difficult to say, but nevertheless?

Razlogova A.

Well, generally speaking, a film should be such an independent unit, i.e. it should convey completely everything we would like to say, without additional explanation. But when there is a director, when there are creators, of course, it is more interesting, viewers can ask questions. Moreover, the theme is this: someone knows about Etigelov, and someone doesn’t know at all, and this film needs to be made in such a way that any viewer...

Troyanskaya T.

So that everyone can understand.

Razlogova A.

- ... could understand and realize what idea, what thought we convey with our film.

Troyanskaya T.

And if we talk about the current Hambo Lama, how closely does he monitor the progress of filming? As I understand it, Alla is such a “medium” between the Hambo Lama and the film crew.

Namsaraeva A.

Well, medium is a strong word, of course. Hambo Lama asks, he asks regularly. When we talked to him about supporting this film, he also asked how, what, why, is the presidential grant fund really, and will it be interesting, and what topic are you applying for, i.e. That's all he asked. And when they gave this grant, and the decision was made, I told him that yes, we were given this grant, he was like, mmm, okay, and what do you assume. And then he gave us such a living idea, yes, he gave us this idea, to use messages, now he recently translated for us the epigraph for this film from the 27th teaching of Nagarjuna. Those. he thinks about it, and now, when I flew here on a business trip to shoot a film in St. Petersburg, he said, okay, where will you shoot? You'll be shooting there, there, there, they sent me photographs, and I'm in correspondence with him.

Kochelyaeva N.

It seems to me that this is very important, this kind of constant support, because, well, let’s say, not all of us are specialists in Buddhism. Yes, we work in some analytical structures, we have experience in preparing analytical reports, we have experience in preparing films. But I was always interested in immersing myself in an atmosphere that would allow me to reveal something that cannot be revealed by science. And so the approach and work with spiritual structures, it, firstly, requires great delicacy, i.e. These are very subtle points. Secondly, it, of course, requires constant interaction, including with the Buddhist traditional Sangha, and constant prompting, i.e. You can perceive this as a guide, or you can perceive it as certain moves that are revealed to you when preparing this or that material. And it is very important that Hambo Lama Damba Ayusheev constantly broadcasts to us some interesting thoughts, moves, etc., this helps a lot in working on the film.

Namsaraeva A.

Well, I think you're right. And I think if he saw that we did not adhere to this, he would stop giving us these ideas and helping us in this regard. Of course, we would have gone to these datsans, where we have filming scheduled at the end of May, but he wouldn’t have kept his finger on the pulse like that. And when he sees that we respond to this, he is also interested in it.

Kochelyaeva N.

You know, in fact, this is a very important work experience for me, because everything in this project turns out to be very responsive, i.e. it somehow took shape even at the application stage, when somehow everything responded and suddenly grew together into this wonderful project. Which combines both analytics and creativity. We were at the Buddhist University, wonderful hubaraks who gave absolutely brilliant interviews, and now we...

Troyanskaya T.

Khubaraki are...?

Namsaraeva A.

Students.

Kochelyaeva N.

And now we are preparing a series...

Troyanskaya T.

This is i.e. such future lamas, right?

Kochelyaeva N.

Yes. ...we are preparing a series of mini-videos like this, posting a video about the first expedition on the website, then the second expedition will follow. Because it is important not only to convey this through the film, but we also put some key things into these video materials. And this responsiveness and willingness to work, of course, impressed me very much, and I am of course grateful that everything is happening this way.

Troyanskaya T.

You know, I watched a teaser associated with the film, and there was an interview with, probably, these students, what Buddhism is for you. And amazing, completely different answers came from the students.

Kochelyaeva N.

There were not only students there, there were very different specialists, and it was a little rough cut, because it was not always possible to capture a good clear sound. Because in the library, where we filmed all the materials, there were no microphones on, so something like that. There were really two Khubaraks there, Radna and Valera, they gave wonderful interviews. There was a rector of the Buddhist University, a vice-rector of the Buddhist University, and if we are talking about such figures, you probably know that the Khubaraks study for eight years - these are people who have amazing knowledge. And if we talk about the rector of the Buddhist University, then, as far as I know, he studied for 17 years.

Namsaraeva A.

Sixteen years old, and he defended his degree in “geshe gabju”, this is a doctor of Buddhist philosophy.

Kochelyaeva N.

And we had various secular experts, i.e. from the Institute of Buddhist and Mongolian Studies of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and art historians. Those. It was very important for us to bring into this project, to bring together people of very different views and very different thoughts, and try to identify what Buddhism means to them, and how it works in everyday life. Therefore, even such funny things, when one of the students of the Buryat State University says that if he sleeps through the lecture, the Buddha will be pleased, this is very funny. And what’s interesting is that VGIK students helped us with this video, and they were able to very quickly...

Troyanskaya T.

Those. did they film?

Kochelyaeva N.

No, they didn't film, they edited it, they put it together. And here is a young look, he allowed us to do such a very dynamic thing.

Troyanskaya T.

Will there be artistic advice from Hambo Lama?

Razlogova A.

We will, of course, show him this film, we will film in Buryatia, we will do an interview with him, and the whole group will listen to some of his instructions and wishes.

Troyanskaya T.

We will wait for the film and it’s good that it premieres not far from St. Petersburg, we’ll all go to Vyborg. I think you will also do some special show for St. Petersburg. So, in our studio we have Nina Kochelyaeva, director of the New Institute of Cultural Studies, Anastasia Razlogova, general producer of the film, Alla Namsaraeva, chief consultant of the project.